Thursday, July 17, 2008

Celibacy of the best Christians

(Why let the best christian lineages vanish?)

I stumbled on this topic by listening to a speech where a young christian girl was criticizing the modesty of Muslim women.

Basically the speaker was talking about this modesty, mentioning that woman don't have to wear the hijab or head scarf in most situations.

They only wear it if strange men are around, because Islam has a very negative attitude with flaunting one's beauty whether you be male or female.

So if a group of woman are around, you don't need the head scarf, if your husband is around you don't need the head scarf.

A few more examples

If your:

  • Parents
  • Brothers
  • Sisters
  • Children
  • just women
  • and a number of other people that i can't list, you don't need to wear the head scarf, and women don't wear it then.

It's only in the case of strange men that the head scarf is worn, as a protection of the wandering eye.


It makes sense, if your chest is bare, that others can see it. But they can't if it's covered. Similarly if your beauty is covered, no strangers can see it.

Also women have lived normal lives hardly ever wearing a head scarf.

The list of people who can see you without your headscarf is very long.

Don't expect Muslim woman to wear headscarves around their family, they don't need to and therefore take them off.

This is something most Christians are ignorant of, let me tell you why.


The Christian Theology, Celibacy, and the lost lines of the Best christians.

That is actually the true title of this post, but it was too long, so i shortened it.

So i mentioned all the back story above because it's to show the contrast between the Muslim women and nuns.

Nuns, or wives of Christ, do not take off their hijab also known as a habit.

The only exception to that rule is to bathe or sleep.
Even while with family members they still keep it on.

On top of that, they can't get married.

Why? Because they are married to Christ of course... you didn't think of that one right away did you...

[don't worry neither did i]


So we find the best women among Christ, do not procreate(have children).

But wouldn't you want the best women among your community to have children?



As for men, there is a bit of a double standard, priests can marry but the vast majority don't.

It's a trade off really, basically if you want to be considered as giving yourself to Christ truly, you want to be celibate.

Another person says it better than I:

Celibacy was a discipline for entering into the presence of God just one time on one day. But our priests are in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist every day. Therefore, perpetual celibacy is a fitting fulfillment of the OT law. ... Additionally, Tradition with a capital “T” refers to the unwritten teaching of the apostles. And the Catholic Church is as bound to follow that teaching as sacred scripture. Tradition with a lower case “t” would apply to the traditions of men, family traditions, ethnic traditions etc. Celibacy is a Church discipline, as it was passed down from the disciples and is what you WILL find today in the Catholic Church to this day.



The gray area ends with priests, if you want to get higher celibacy becomes a requirement.

To be a bishop, you must be unmarried and celibate, for the vast majority of bishops.

Then the next step up is cardinal, strict celibacy here, no exceptions.

And finally if your lucky enough to be Pope, celibacy again is a requirement.

You might ask why, and again the writer above gives a very good summary of why celibacy is so imporant:

There are many good reasons to keep celibacy but the best is because the celibate Priest most closely models Jesus Christ, who was celibate. He also, stands in Persona Christi in most of the sacraments and since in Heaven there will be no marriage, the priest also models life in the age to come. In the Eastern Orthodox churches and even some non Latin rite Catholic Churches married men are ordained to the priesthood. But the married ones cannot become Bishops. And people in these churches prefer the unmarried priests to the married ones for the obvious reason that an unmarried priest can be married to the Church as he is called to be, and a more available father.

Same Source:


This may seem to be an admirable position at first, one of intense sacrifice and devotion.

The amount of discipline a person needs to never marry, and never fulfill those urges in him, is tremendous.

The problem is, there are certain effects that come out of this that maybe the church never anticipated.


The first major effect; Procreation:

If the best christians in the world become celibate, they have no way of continuing their line, teaching their children what they themselves were inspired with, and showing them the path to enlightenment.

Your left with above average, average, and poor christians left to procreate the earth and teach their children right from wrong.

This happens every generation, time after time, parent after parent, never meeting the greatest standards of God.

Imagine now the pope, with a family, teaching the deepest meanings of God.
How inspiring would he be to his children?


There is a cascade effect, where each generation the family might become more pious, and more gifted, learning from each other.

All this is lost when the pope is forbidden to have a family and procreate.

Second effect, Marriage:

There seems to be this stance that Marriage isn't the best option.

Basically if given an option between Marriage and Celibacy to God, you should always choose Celibacy...

But assuming all Christians indeed took this path, they would all die, Christianity with it.

So does Christianity need a constant supply of evil doers, or people who refuse to take the best position in God.

As the man I quoted above said:

There are many good reasons to keep celibacy but the best is because the celibate Priest most closely models Jesus Christ, who was celibate. He also, stands in Persona Christi in most of the sacraments and since in Heaven there will be no marriage, the priest also models life in the age to come.

Marriage is such a tainting thing, or such an imperfection, that it will not be allowed in heaven, it will be completely absent there.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven" (Matt. 22:30)

So what are the effects on a Religion who consistently kills off the lines of the best of it's people?

What do you end up with if the only people keeping a religion alive is never the best, always littered with more faults than the best?

Is it fair to make Christian children be born to families who are consistently not meeting the best standards set by Christ and God?

What are the consequences of treating children in this way and giving them lacking parents?


There is but a glimmer of hope:

You are absolutely correct. There is no Biblical mandate that Priests are to be celibate. In fact, we know since Peter had a mother-in-law that he must have been married, at some point. The normal discipline of priestly celibacy could be changed to allow priests to marry. Celibacy is a discipline in the Latin Rite Catholic Church it is not an unchangeable doctrine or dogma. Eating fish on Fridays, similarly, was a discipline in the Church but it was changed and priestly celibacy might be changed, could be changed, theoretically. But it probably will not be changed any time soon. So disciplines can change but dogma does not change.

Same source as above


I do find it odd though, that if celibacy was such a great act, that God would mandate it for his Pope, bishops, and cardinals.

The fact that he didn't might suggest he never wanted celibacy for the greatest christians but rather procreation.

Possibly increased procreation, as he mandated on Adam and Eve.
"Be fruitful and multiply" (Gen. 1:28)


So is the bible lacking in something mandatory?

Or is it purposefully showing that such an act is not acceptable or mandated on humans, especially the best christians.


An informal logical syllogism:

1) If the bible is not lacking in what Mankind needs to know, then what it lacks is not necessity or shouldn't be mandated.

2) Mandating something missing from the bible is wrong .


Therefore mandating celibacy on the pope, bishops, and cardinals is wrong because God didn't mandate it and he mandates all we need.


The most important premise here is that the bible doesn't lack what mankind needs to know to live on earth, which is not a stretch.

It makes sense God would give us everything we needed to know, in order to live here, or else he abandoned us, which is completely illogical.


If you've read this and still don't believe Christianity has a problem with Marriage, i need only give you the writings of the Apostle Paul:

"Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

Sadly he did end up contradicting himself when he also said:

Each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband" (1 Cor. 7:2)

He also takes the middle road ....

"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" (7:8-9).

You can't say each man should have his own wife, and then say, he shouldn't be married if he hasn't married yet.... they are in stark contrast.

It's a topic christians will have to discuss with each other.


I only ask, who gave humans the authority to mandate celibacy on the pope, when peter, the first pope, was married...

Some people actually say he isn't the first pope BECAUSE he was married lol, yet there is no mandate for celibacy for popes :D.

In logic, that means your trying to prove something wrong, with a rule, that is non existant.

Basically like me saying,

"Hey you're not a human!!!
Because i can see you."

If i can see you, you're not a human, is the false rule.

They say Peter wasn't the first pope because he was married.... again a mandate that wasn't created by God.

He might not be the first pope, the word pope isn't even mentioned in the bible, but you have to give a better reason than the one listed above.

So again i ask, who had the authority to make these rulings:

"Council of Elvira (c. 305)
(Canon 33): It is decided that marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry, and that they keep away from their wives and not beget children; whoever does this, shall be deprived of the honor of the clerical office.

Council of Carthage (390)
(Canon 3): It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavour to keep… It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity."

What gives you authority to make such laws?

The level of pride here staggers(amazes) me.


Finally to get back to the beginning of this discussion and how it all relates to hijab.

Muslims have a system of modesty in place to protect women from the gazes of strange men, and only strange men.

But it seems Christians have a system in place that requires full celibacy, that is if you want to reach the pinnacle of the religion.

It seems one of them is extreme, but it ends up not being the one we thought it would be.

To kill of the lines of the most prominent christians is a travesty, an extreme act of worship, an unneeded mandate never given by God.

When compared to protecting women from the eyes of a peering stranger, it truly does seem extreme and it goes against human nature itself.

Christians often say love is what keeps the world going, but without marriage, we have lost our greatest source of love and passion in this world.

God never asked us to give up marriage, it would be wise to ask fellow christians who did.

Even paul doesn't have the authority to destroy the sanctity of marriage.



Ali Tehrani said...

i was surprised one would skim rather than read your blog. Now I know why. The length of your entries is truly impressive.

Thee Phoenix said...

lol, yea they are very long, but i try to shorten them as much as possible.


They length might be so long because i will only post when a subject truly inspires me.

And it seems when I'm really inspired i tend to look at a subject from many different angles and analyze it as deeply as possible.


What did you think of the post btw?

Let me know if you have any varying opinions and we can discuss them here like me and Mohammad were going to do :)

Thee Phoenix said...

Continued discussion on:

Believe it or not children do grow up, and they do become independant.

If you look at the age of the current pope(81), you would know that he wouldn’t need to be taking care of kids.

What he would be doing was instilling a deep devotion to God, from birth, that no one has ever felt.

No one has ever grown up in the arms of a pope, as their child, this is because of a fictional mandate made by men.


If you really believe that your parents religion and devotion don’t matter, in the terms of raising kids, then give your children to an orthodox jewish family in Israel.

Lets see how great of a christian he becomes, or even better give your child to an Orthodox Muslim family and see how good of a christian he becomes.


Your points seem flawed, because they rely on the fact that the devotion of a parent doesn’t matter to a child.

When in reality it does, and if you were tested on that reality, you would see the effects.

This fictional mandate made by men has refused Pope’s, bishops, and Cardinals the right to instill a deep devotion in their children.

And in the end the Christian religion will be populated by average to poor christians who have average or little faith.

The best christians could not populate the earth because of their celibacy.

All because of a fictional Mandate made by men.

Celibacy is not mandated on the best of christians, if it was we’d see it say so in the Bible.

God does not support you, logic does not support you, neither do a growing number of christians who will in short time do away with priestly celibacy.

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