Friday, June 27, 2008

Does Color exist?

It's a continuation of the conversation of the last post, but this time the person I'm speaking with makes another controversial statement:

You still don't get it. The point isn't that our senses are limited. The point is that our senses aren't even means of sensing objective reality.

An example that might help is color. Color does not exist. There is no such thing as red. Red is simply the way our brain interprets a certain wavelength of light, but there is no redness inherent to that light.

Without the brain, color would not exist, but wavelength would.
My response:

It's the old... do you hear the sound of a tree fall if no one is around to hear it.
Would you see the color of red paint, if no human were around.

I think the color red does exist, even if it exists only in our mind, it exists.
You and i both agree, we see red, and our reality of red is the color we see.
And we both agree, it exists, only in the head.

Would you like to know what else only exists in our heads?


Justice, love, morality, mercy, freedom and a plethora of other emotions and ideas.
So don't think, if it exists in our head, but isn't tangible outside it, that it doesn't exist.

I can quite easily say, all those emotions exist, even if some of them are the result of chemical reactions.
I can't say though, morality, is the result of chemical reactions.

Morality would actually be, you working against your chemical reactions.
Against your inner evils, inherent in all humans, rising above them, through your ethics and morals.

So does color exist? Yes, in my opinion it does, just like justice, love, morality, and a million other emotions and ideas only exist in our heads.

Someone else continues with this comment:

How can you honestly say that?
color as you know it is only known by that of wich you are taught, red is nothing untill you are told it is red. Our mind notices its differences but untill we are told what it is we cannot know what to call it. Comparing color to morality is like comparing apples to transmission fluid, not even close. Morality is taught to us by our parents and the people around us in our developmental years, and it is something that is felt not something that is observed. Yes I do belive some things are geneticaly passed on but not all.

My reply:

So... we both... are taught, color and morality..... they are different... i agree Blink

Nothing is known, until we are taught it, i don't get your point...., we wouldn't even know what to call light, or the sun, if we weren't taught it.
Justice wouldn't be known as justice if we weren't taught it.

We learn everything.

But i know what you mean, morality, some things are inherently wrong.
No one is born with the desire to kill.

So i understand your point to a degree.

But i have to say, color exists, we both agree on it, although it isn't tangible, it exists, just as morality, justice, truth, and a plethora of other ideals and emotions, exist.

Things don't have to be tangible to be real.

For me to perceive it, understand it, and share this understanding with Billions of people, who agree this color is red... should mean something.

And it does, it means that it exists.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be arguing that the color red doesn't exist, just the fact that you are arguing over it, is a sign of its existence.

He replies with this:

The point is that the rainbow has no color. It's colorless. color only exists in our brain as a way of describing to our consciousness what it is we are seeing, and all we are seeing are light waves of different wavelengths.

Color is a creation of the brain. No brains, no color.

My reply:

No brains no justice, no brains no love, no brains no mercy.

My point is you agree it exists in our brains, that should be enough for you to say it exists, period.

So it's not tangible, some of the greatest things in life aren't tangible.

That is unless you're 100% materialistic.

My last point:

Another reason why i think color exists, is that NOTHING is absolutely known but that we exist.

You cannot name a single thing, that is situational in some way, as color and our brain is.

So why hate color? Just because it only exists in our brains?

It's not like everything else in this world is absolutely known.


Closest thing to a proof, that i made, that we should accept color as existing:

Everything we perceive is seen through a frame of reference, which in itself is flawed.
We also have Heisenberg;s uncertainty principle, to interact with something forever changes it.
Backed up by chaos theory, showing very minute changes can cause HUGE change.


So working off the framework that nothing is absolute, not anything we perceive anyways, i deduced color must exist.

Because, even though color is inherently faulty, by only existing in our minds, so is every other object deduced by us in this world.

Basically, in layman's terms, we have to let color join our group, because the same fault he has, is had by everything we observe.

So it only exists in our brains.
Doesn't everything?
We know nothing absolutely except that we exist.

And that was my point Smiley


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